Survey: thoughts on Jan-18 autocross event at Podium Club

[yushikaneda]

Thank you everyone who came out to our first autocross of the year at Podium Club!

Since this was the first event here, there were lessons to be learned so we can be more efficient, and make sure everyone has good experience.

Please post your thoughts in the comment below, or send message to us, or send email to socialmedia at azbrsscc.org. (replace " at " with "@")

 

We look forward to our next event at Podium Club on March 1!!

[jw1]

Few minor tweaks, but did have fun once we got going.    Things to consider:

1.  Alternate the Run/Work groups so C works for A and D works for B, etc....     This would allow people to be pre gridded and workers to be checked in as soon as the prior group finishes.

2.  Antennas on tripods/poles for the timing controller and both the start and finish timing sensors.

3.  (Not sure if possible), but put timing table and the equipment truck on the other side of the track so that the timing people and observers can watch the entire track.

[Herro]

Idk what can be improved, this event was perfect!!!

[Notpi3]

I really liked the part where timing was broken for about 2 hours total and we didn't get TOs or a 4th run 

[Herro]

Just now, Notpi3 said:

I really liked the part where timing was broken for about 2 hours total and we didn't get TOs or a 4th run 

If you think about your runs are more valuable, so you had to make each run count 👍

[DickWang]

Please just use Motorsportreg next time, it makes things easier and people don't get accidentally charged for TO when there is none, still waiting on the refund. It also felt like it could have been better organized, hopefully next time it'll be better. 

[Notpi3]

7 minutes ago, DickWang said:

Please just use Motorsportreg next time, it makes things easier and people don't get accidentally charged for TO when there is none, still waiting on the refund. It also felt like it could have been better organized, hopefully next time it'll be better. 

+1 to this! Would massively improve schedule awareness, planning and signup. It was really confusing to me that I didn't even get a confirmation email for my original signup and had to go check the website for any information.

[smeyers]

First, Glenda and I had a great time. Really enjoyed the total experience. The location, track, course design and price were all fantastic. But know that this was all accomplished with a very small Club Staff. Tucson Region is a smaller SCCA Autocross Club, with not nearly the manpower that Phoenix has. So yes, fewer people doing all the work. Without extra perks, yet.

Phoenix, Sierra Vista and Tucson are all SCCA Autocross Clubs, and each has their own way of doing things. Sierra Vista is even smaller than the Tucson Club. So what happens and how things happen depends on manpower, available expertise, budget, and other available options (sites, equipment, etc.).

"Just use Motorspotsreg"?. Not that easy. Tucson and Sierra Vista have successfully used their current system for many, many years, and was developed by a Club Member for no charge. Any errors in billing not it's fault, but pay attention to the offered choices as you enter. Any errors in billing will be corrected by Staff in short order. We've had no issues with that for years.

As far as the "speed bumps" experienced as this smaller Region took on this huge challenge yesterday, would have been highly unusual if there were none. For any Region. So many things that needed to be done differently due to space, logistics (where everything was relative to this location), timing issues (the greater distances involved over-taxed the current wireless system), how to get workers out to their work stations, (Thank you Ted and your pickup) no Announcer to share the action, even Observer(s) had to go full walkie-talkie as the entire course was not visible from where the timing truck was. Or anywhere. And we tried both sides of the track, no difference. These distances and lack of visibility made it harder to track what cars were coming into the finish of unknown make until they arrived. Harder to identify in a timely manner.

Out-of-towners value the current A/B and C/D work/run pairing as it typically shortens our day, something we like about Tucson.  But we understand that in this location that might not be the best plan with the distances involved. Maybe for Kino location still yes, but for this larger venue not the best plan. So what Jeff W (aka jw1) said above we agree with.

Exciting and a challenge. But lessons were learned, and all will be better next event there. Very much looking forward to it.

And to any current participant who lives in and around the Tucson area, strongly consider joining the Club and becoming an ACTIVE member. It is very rewarding to help produce a successful and fun car event for the Community. These events do not put themselves on. Choose to become part of the action and solution.😎👍

[Manfred]

There does seem to have been a payment issue we've never seen before. It is probably related to the fact that we almost never run an event without TOs. FWIW everyone's entry fee is $42 in the raw DB and nobody's TO column is set to true, but a small number of people were served a link to a $52 payment. This didn't show up in any of the testing I did before the event.

If you overpaid, please email me and walk me through how you registered and paid.

[moujung_driver]

10 hours ago, smeyers said:

First, Glenda and I had a great time. Really enjoyed the total experience. The location, track, course design and price were all fantastic. But know that this was all accomplished with a very small Club Staff. Tucson Region is a smaller SCCA Autocross Club, with not nearly the manpower that Phoenix has. So yes, fewer people doing all the work. Without extra perks, yet.

Phoenix, Sierra Vista and Tucson are all SCCA Autocross Clubs, and each has their own way of doing things. Sierra Vista is even smaller than the Tucson Club. So what happens and how things happen depends on manpower, available expertise, budget, and other available options (sites, equipment, etc.).

"Just use Motorspotsreg"?. Not that easy. Tucson and Sierra Vista have successfully used their current system for many, many years, and was developed by a Club Member for no charge. Any errors in billing not it's fault, but pay attention to the offered choices as you enter. Any errors in billing will be corrected by Staff in short order. We've had no issues with that for years.

As far as the "speed bumps" experienced as this smaller Region took on this huge challenge yesterday, would have been highly unusual if there were none. For any Region. So many things that needed to be done differently due to space, logistics (where everything was relative to this location), timing issues (the greater distances involved over-taxed the current wireless system), how to get workers out to their work stations, (Thank you Ted and your pickup) no Announcer to share the action, even Observer(s) had to go full walkie-talkie as the entire course was not visible from where the timing truck was. Or anywhere. And we tried both sides of the track, no difference. These distances and lack of visibility made it harder to track what cars were coming into the finish of unknown make until they arrived. Harder to identify in a timely manner.

Out-of-towners value the current A/B and C/D work/run pairing as it typically shortens our day, something we like about Tucson.  But we understand that in this location that might not be the best plan with the distances involved. Maybe for Kino location still yes, but for this larger venue not the best plan. So what Jeff W (aka jw1) said above we agree with.

Exciting and a challenge. But lessons were learned, and all will be better next event there. Very much looking forward to it.

And to any current participant who lives in and around the Tucson area, strongly consider joining the Club and becoming an ACTIVE member. It is very rewarding to help produce a successful and fun car event for the Community. These events do not put themselves on. Choose to become part of the action and solution.😎👍

I certainly enjoyed the concept and ability to drive autocross on a track that isn't surrounded by walls, I certainly feel like a few things could use improvement.

As members who don't necessarily belong to the Border region of the SCCA, we'll happily do volunteer work to make things run more smoothly. I think an easily discoverable communication portal (or even an e-mail asking for volunteers) would hopefully fix the shortage of labor, especially given the logistical scope of such a wide track.

I, along with others, found the payment site a little frustrating. While it's true that foreign voices (including my own) should not impose any call for standardization, I think it is fair to criticize some parts of the site, especially when there exists an alternative standardized platform for discoverability and ease of use. Immediately, I was overwhelmed by the multitude of ways in which I could pay, and the confusing abilities to add time-only runs (which you can do through a checkmark and an alternative site after ordering).

One thing I was slightly disappointed with is the inability to access a live scoreboard. I had a suspicion that I needed a re-run when after I finished the course, I saw that the time stated "7.013", suggesting it didn't trigger correctly. When results were published, I saw a DNS for the one run that I saw 7.00 for.

For what it's worth, I think this issue could have been caught and self-audited by a live scoreboard, but maybe that would have resulted in some chaos with which cars were being sent out.

I also noticed that none of the stations had easily identifiable cones indicating where I should go for the station. I think that would have helped me figure out where the stations were, but perhaps there was a low supply of cones, which I entirely understand, given the overwhelming size of the course. Consequently, the first car was sent out before I could even arrive at my station, despite nobody being at the station to respond to the radio check.

Regardless of my criticism, I enjoyed the event and would happily run again, especially considering this was the first event. Subsequent iterations can only get smoother from here!

[smeyers]

Timing Issues - There were identification problems with cars on course arriving with a time, but scoring not knowing what car it was. And while that was being dealt with another car would arrive. There were issues in accurately logging some run times and penalties.

Timer failures made for more confusion.

Car numbers were announced by the starters as they staged. Good. But…..

The one “observer” (who could not see the course or cars, radio reporting only) monitored any cone calls or dnf’s on one radio, and reported verbally to the scorekeeper. With three cars on course at one time, that became difficult. Some station workers at times could not identify what make of car was running, just the color.

Small window numbers are adequate on fully visible parking lot courses with three observers, but not under these circumstances. Larger visible window numbers on side windows? Or…..? Other ideas?

Likely the most important concern. Accurate scoring.

EDIT/ADD…….

Alternative to figuring out how to do visible numbers on both metal and non-metal cars😉…… only one more worker in timing to track the flow of who’s on course and finishing next. MUCH easier than figuring out how to attach large numbers to all cars.😎

Edited January 20 by smeyers
Added content

[moujung_driver]

15 hours ago, smeyers said:

Timing Issues - There were identification problems with cars on course arriving with a time, but scoring not knowing what car it was. And while that was being dealt with another car would arrive. There were issues in accurately logging some run times and penalties.

Timer failures made for more confusion.

Car numbers were announced by the starters as they staged. Good. But…..

The one “observer” (who could not see the course or cars, radio reporting only) monitored any cone calls or dnf’s on one radio, and reported verbally to the scorekeeper. With three cars on course at one time, that became difficult. Some station workers at times could not identify what make of car was running, just the color.

Small window numbers are adequate on fully visible parking lot courses with three observers, but not under these circumstances. Larger visible window numbers on side windows? Or…..? Other ideas?

Likely the most important concern. Accurate scoring.

EDIT/ADD…….

Alternative to figuring out how to do visible numbers on both metal and non-metal cars😉…… only one more worker in timing to track the flow of who’s on course and finishing next. MUCH easier than figuring out how to attach large numbers to all cars.😎

> Inability to identify make and model.

The person who launches the cars could say the words "C22, Gray Honda Civic Si" before launching the car to announce to all station workers what make and model it is. I'd imagine by the third run station workers would have memorized the make and model by then.

> Additional timing worker

I think this would help quite a bit, hopefully it wouldn't result in too many calls on the radio.

After sleeping on it, I also remembered another possible issue:

I think proper signage (or better placement of the cones) to indicate what areas are "NO CROSSING" zones could have been more helpful.

Many people accidentally walked into line of sight for timing without even knowing that this was a forbidden area. This problem was exacerbated by the incorrect placement of the cones protecting the "line of sight" for timing (they were placed WELL behind the line of sight, so people would innocently walk across it trying to check timing). 

Perhaps the use of caution tape and positioning the "line of sight" for timing more aggressively (towards the grid) could have helped in making timing more reliable. 

Edited January 20 by moujung_driver

[smeyers]

Great suggestions, I think. I'm not a member of Tucson Region, but I've run there a lot since the 1970's...... so maybe I'm adopted😂? So I have no sway on their decisions. Just trying to help generate positive idea sharing and solutions.

Starter stating the make, model, number - that same idea came to me last night too. Then that "Observer with a radio at the timing table" could help the scorer as cars finished. Much better than trying to add big numbers to cars.👍 Also maybe help Observer #2 track cone and dnf calls from the worker stations. Observers at this Trackcross will have to operate differently that at a parking lot autocross.

Additional Timing Worker - Not really. See above. A normal parking lot event typically has THREE Observers anyway, so keep that the same but RE-PURPOSE them. Timing must be accurate and bulletproof in my mind. These three guys would be a big help in identifying and and informing any re-runs quickly and effectively. The fourth person at the timing table is the actual scribe/scorer who writes the times down. These people need extra help and support and backup at a Trackcross IMO.

No Crossing Zones - Absolutely. Normally at a parking lot event these are usually in place, especially Phoenix, but the scoreboard needs to be publicly available for drivers to check times and cones and such easily. The timing truck got moved at the last minute, and that moved the scoreboard, so timing "line of sight" and also "timing lights line of sight" were evolved /moved as these needs and locations became more apparent. Something to plan better next Trackcross for sure.

Live Online Scoreboard - Only Phoenix has one, and it is tied into the scoring computer system that Tucson does not have access to. Only Phoenix has Jason Bucki (Phx scorer) and he developed and created the whole system. Maybe Tucson could find someone new to the Club who might take this on as a challenge? Even so, seeing it there is no better than seeing it on the display as one finishes a run. The time would need to automatically feed into the computer next to the driver and car. Then Bingo!

Thanks again.

Edited January 20 by smeyers

[Manfred]

Anyone who overpaid $10, can you share exactly where you saw a checkbox to add TOs? Was it on the same registration page where you enter your car information, or somewhere else?