Toe Plates Vs. Professional Alignment

[Mach5Mk5]

After my last event in September, I noticed that my steering wheel is very slightly off center compared to before the event. I just had the car aligned a few months beforehand, but hadn't driven it hard until September. Someone recommended getting toe plates and DIYing the toe corrections at home. Are cheaper toe plates accurate enough for an autocross alignment? I found some that have mixed reviews on Amazon called Vevor that have iffy reviews on quality. Found Longacre ones that seem to have better reviews for quality, but the consensus seems to be it'll get you "close enough." Anyone have experience with buying toe plates that are less than $100 and if they're good, before I decide to buy some, or up my price range on toe plates, or get alignments more frequently if the BRZ gets a bit thrown off? It still has tight steering and drives straight, no play or anything, the steering wheel just seems to be slightly angled less straight than before, but that could be my detail obsessiveness kicking in.

[SSLance]

I use the Longacre toe plates and they get the job done.  

[smeyers]

I have the Longacre toe plates, and they work just fine. Any name set would do the same, as would two straight aluminum or steel plates with two slots cut in them. Plenty darn accurate for our needs.

Be sure to buy two measuring tapes exactly the same. Longacre comes with them.

They will correct any toe issues, but will not straighten your steering wheel. That could be off, but your toe correct. You’d have to then only center your toe adjusters equally.

They also would not address rear thrust angle, only the relative toe.

Edited October 26, 2023 by smeyers

[Mach5Mk5]

Thanks, good to know! Scott, thanks for the tip on the toe plates not fixing the steering wheel. Here’s a photo showing the angle that it’s off; VERY minimal. I remember my old STS Miata’s steering wheel was never actually entirely straight after a custom alignment from Network in Glendale. I might just try to ignore it. Figured the tie Rod adjustment would fix it though from what I understand, and the toe plates could make sure it’s straight doing so.

[smeyers]

Your car has experienced more than it’s fair share of mechanical massaging in recent times. Many pieces were unattached and then reattached. So in weeks to follow, a degree of settling will occur. Finding their new normal.

Just that could explain the steering wheel. Easy fix. Check the toe anyway.😉

[Clifton]

I've never had a professional alignment. I use some home made toe plates. I string it up before adjusting the rear.  Once you have the tools, it's pretty easy.

If you do it yourself, assuming your rack is on the front and you aren't far off, you may find you can toe out the DS tie rod to center the steering wheel while adding a little more toe out. A shop may toe in the PS tie rod. Either would fix it but most that AX prefer to run the least amount of toe in. When you do it yourself, you decide.

[Mach5Mk5]

11 hours ago, smeyers said:

Your car has experienced more than it’s fair share of mechanical massaging in recent times. Many pieces were unattached and then reattached. So in weeks to follow, a degree of settling will occur. Finding their new normal.

Just that could explain the steering wheel. Easy fix. Check the toe anyway.😉

Very true, it's had a lot done to it. And the last time I had an alignment done (Performance Auto in Mesa with custom specs they followed to the best of their ability), they did have to replace the camber bolts on the front shocks. Old ones were installed in the wrong holes. I'll order some Longacres then and give this a shot! Can't hurt to have more skills and tools to fix stuff at home.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Mach5Mk5

[Mach5Mk5]

58 minutes ago, Clifton said:

I've never had a professional alignment. I use some home made toe plates. I string it up before adjusting the rear.  Once you have the tools, it's pretty easy.

If you do it yourself, assuming your rack is on the front and you aren't far off, you may find you can toe out the DS tie rod to center the steering wheel while adding a little more toe out. A shop may toe in the PS tie rod. Either would fix it but most that AX prefer to run the least amount of toe in. When you do it yourself, you decide.

That's good to know that you've never had a professional one done! True that most shops won't adjust it to do anything other than drive straight unless they're given specifications. I had the same thought to adjust the tie rods for toe to center the wheel. I'll get some plates, give this a try and see what happens.

[Clifton]

13 minutes ago, Mach5Mk5 said:

That's good to know that you've never had a professional one done! True that most shops won't adjust it to do anything other than drive straight unless they're given specifications. I had the same thought to adjust the tie rods for toe to center the wheel. I'll get some plates, give this a try and see what happens.

Use a sharpie on the tie rod end and steering rod. When you break it loose, it may/will rotate more than you think. If it's marked you'll know where you started how much it rotated and how much to go. You're not off much and may only need a 1/4" turn to get that back. 

[Mach5Mk5]

2 hours ago, Clifton said:

Use a sharpie on the tie rod end and steering rod. When you break it loose, it may/will rotate more than you think. If it's marked you'll know where you started how much it rotated and how much to go. You're not off much and may only need a 1/4" turn to get that back. 

Finally I’ve got a use for those paint pens from Autozone I got to replace my GTI’s alternator for the serpentine belt 5 months ago. Didn’t end up needing them when I found the belt was ripped 😂

Edited October 26, 2023 by Mach5Mk5

[David 2]

20 hours ago, Mach5Mk5 said:

After my last event in September, I noticed that my steering wheel is very slightly off center compared to before the event. I just had the car aligned a few months beforehand, but hadn't driven it hard until September. Someone recommended getting toe plates and DIYing the toe corrections at home. Are cheaper toe plates accurate enough for an autocross alignment? I found some that have mixed reviews on Amazon called Vevor that have iffy reviews on quality. Found Longacre ones that seem to have better reviews for quality, but the consensus seems to be it'll get you "close enough." Anyone have experience with buying toe plates that are less than $100 and if they're good, before I decide to buy some, or up my price range on toe plates, or get alignments more frequently if the BRZ gets a bit thrown off? It still has tight steering and drives straight, no play or anything, the steering wheel just seems to be slightly angled less straight than before, but that could be my detail obsessiveness kicking in.

I've gone both routes of using both Longacre alignment plates and a professional alignment.  Regarding the plates, I agree with Scott.  The algnment plates are all roughly the same.  I bought Longacre to do the "buy the best and buy it once" routine as there has been too many times in my life when I've bought a cheap tool/part only to have to buy the good one later.  With the alignement plates, I don't see how the less expensive ones will give you different satisfaction from the more expensive ones.  Though, do check to confirm your tape measures are 100% the same.  I'd suggest measuring first, swap the tapes, and then measure a second time to confirm that you are not picking up a difference between the tape measures.  You only need to do that trick once but it is well worth it.  My tapes were about 1/32nd different.  It was not enough to affect things much but enough to tell me it is worthwhile to confirm your tapes are the same since it could have been more.

However, with the alignment plates I find that the plates will get you within 1/16th of what a professional with a good alignement rack will give you.  And, that is close enough for fun stuff.  Though, I have found that with rear toe, that 1/16th borders on having a discernable affect on AX performance.  1/8th inch will REALLY make the car perform differently.  On the front, I don't notice much difference with up to 1/8th inch.  More than that and it seems to affect the car.  But, each car/driver will be different. 

[Mark111R]

Both our STR Miata and the Lotus were aligned by myself on my uneven driveway on Paco Motorsport hubstands with verified toe with Longacre toe plates. The technique of the alignment and repeatability matters more. Don't skimp on bad tools. The Paco hubstands aren't the greatest (they're cheap compared to alternatives), but they do the job if you pay attention to how they're leveled and set up. 

Toe is only part of the alignment, so not sure how you plan to address everything other than toe. 

Also remember toe plates only tell you total toe. It won't tell you if your steering is straight or not. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Mark111R

[Mach5Mk5]

50 minutes ago, Mark111R said:

Both our STR Miata and the Lotus were aligned by myself on my uneven driveway on Paco Motorsport hubstands with verified toe with Longacre toe plates. The technique of the alignment and repeatability matters more. Don't skimp on bad tools. The Paco hubstands aren't the greatest (they're cheap compared to alternatives), but they do the job if you pay attention to how they're leveled and set up. 

Toe is only part of the alignment, so not sure how you plan to address everything other than toe. 

Also remember toe plates only tell you total toe. It won't tell you if your steering is straight or not. 

Thanks Mark, I just had it aligned in June when I got my oil changed on the car and haven't driven it hard other than September, so I'm not worried about the rest of the alignment yet. It was more that I was concerned with the steering not being quite straight, so I'm planning to correct it and want to make sure the toe is straight. I went ahead and ordered the Longacres instead of the cheap Vevor ones I found. Agreed that saving $30-$40 isn't worth buying junk tools for something as crucial as alignment specs.

[Mach5Mk5]

21 hours ago, David 2 said:

I've gone both routes of using both Longacre alignment plates and a professional alignment.  Regarding the plates, I agree with Scott.  The algnment plates are all roughly the same.  I bought Longacre to do the "buy the best and buy it once" routine as there has been too many times in my life when I've bought a cheap tool/part only to have to buy the good one later.  With the alignement plates, I don't see how the less expensive ones will give you different satisfaction from the more expensive ones.  Though, do check to confirm your tape measures are 100% the same.  I'd suggest measuring first, swap the tapes, and then measure a second time to confirm that you are not picking up a difference between the tape measures.  You only need to do that trick once but it is well worth it.  My tapes were about 1/32nd different.  It was not enough to affect things much but enough to tell me it is worthwhile to confirm your tapes are the same since it could have been more.

However, with the alignment plates I find that the plates will get you within 1/16th of what a professional with a good alignement rack will give you.  And, that is close enough for fun stuff.  Though, I have found that with rear toe, that 1/16th borders on having a discernable affect on AX performance.  1/8th inch will REALLY make the car perform differently.  On the front, I don't notice much difference with up to 1/8th inch.  More than that and it seems to affect the car.  But, each car/driver will be different. 

This helps reassure me about my Longacres due to arrive tomorrow that they'll be accurate enough and durable enough. The cheap Vevor ones I found had some complaints about bending way too easily. I'll make sure to double check the tape measures included with the plates. Thanks!

[smeyers]

Just one more “essential tool” for your collection.👍😎

Over the years when a special tool has been needed, that both does the job and saves time, I have learned to acquire them. I have quite the collection.

If you ever need that special wrench for a unique Bugeye Sprite axle nut, I’m your guy to ask.😂 (not kidding).

[Mark111R]

18 hours ago, Mach5Mk5 said:

Thanks Mark, I just had it aligned in June when I got my oil changed on the car and haven't driven it hard other than September, so I'm not worried about the rest of the alignment yet. It was more that I was concerned with the steering not being quite straight, so I'm planning to correct it and want to make sure the toe is straight. 

Just make sure it's not the rear that slipped haha. 

 

Feels unlikely the tie rod end would rotate. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Mark111R

[Mach5Mk5]

Update: I’ve used the toe plates and the toe turned out to be 1/8 out. I reset it super close to 0, but it somehow threw my steering wheel a bit more off in the process 😅. I realized it’s probably best to wait until I have plenty of time on a day to try to correct it, or just wait for my next alignment, to correct it. Might end up wasting more time on my own perfectionism than it’s worth to get it perfectly straight.

[Mark111R]

Total toe can be zero, but both wheels can be pointed one side or the other. That's why toe plates will always tell you total toe, but it won't tell you whether or not the wheels are pointing straight ahead.

Once you have your total toe, turn the tie rods the same amount on both sides to center the steering. For example, if your wheel is slightly off to the right when going straight, you need to toe in the front left and toe out the front right the same amount to center it. That process gets a lot faster if you turn your tie rod a quarter turn on both sides in the same direction and write down the effect on your steering wheel angle. Also useful to get an idea of what a quarter turn on the tie rod does to total toe too. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mark111R

[Mach5Mk5]

1 hour ago, Mark111R said:

Total toe can be zero, but both wheels can be pointed one side or the other. That's why toe plates will always tell you total toe, but it won't tell you whether or not the wheels are pointing straight ahead.

Once you have your total toe, turn the tie rods the same amount on both sides to center the steering. For example, if your wheel is slightly off to the right when going straight, you need to toe in the front left and toe out the front right the same amount to center it. That process gets a lot faster if you turn your tie rod a quarter turn on both sides in the same direction and write down the effect on your steering wheel angle. Also useful to get an idea of what a quarter turn on the tie rod does to total toe too. 

Thanks! That's exactly what I figured was going on, that they're both pointed the same amount in one direction. I found a small grease leak forming on the right outer tie rod end anyway, so I'll do a more full correction once I get the new ends installed after they arrive from RockAuto. If it's worn out, that might explain why the steering wheel wasn't straight anymore after the last event. Should still work for now, as there's no clunking, but I'll get them replaced in the next few weeks. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mach5Mk5

[Banner]

I made a string box jig setup a few years ago. With this method you can set your toe individually. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4632013

 

[Clifton]

4 hours ago, Banner said:

I made a string box jig setup a few years ago. With this method you can set your toe individually.

 

This is how I do the rear toe except on weighted stands that bump to the body. Once I know the rear is equal I will use boards but without stringing you wouldn't know, one side can be 1/16 out, the other 3/16 in and with boards you think you are 1/8 total in. 

 

[Mach5Mk5]

18 hours ago, Banner said:

I made a string box jig setup a few years ago. With this method you can set your toe individually. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4632013

 

Thanks, looks like a really helpful device! Definitely would help toe accuracy. Unfortunately, I live in a 660-square foot 1-bedroom condo, so I don’t have enough room to store something that big. As it is, most of my tools and car parts are on my laundry room shelf, and my extra tires and suspension parts sit on my balcony. Now, assuming I buy a house a few years down the road, this is something I’d be able to build then.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Mach5Mk5

[Mach5Mk5]

Update: Car's steering wheel was even more thrown off from center driving home from AMP yesterday. After replacing the tie rod ends, I think I've found the culprits. Presumably, this shouldn't be leaking grease, have this much gap in the boot's top hole or be this easy to move. Time will tell after I get an alignment whether the new Moogs from Rockauto hold the alignment better than the 95,000-mile stock ones. Tried the toe plates and manually adjusting first, and I don't have the patience for anything more than small adjustments. 😄

IMG_7615.MOV

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mach5Mk5

[Mach5Mk5]

1 minute ago, Mach5Mk5 said:

Update: Car's steering wheel was even more thrown off from center driving home from AMP yesterday. After replacing the tie rod ends, I think I've found the culprits. Presumably, this shouldn't be leaking grease, have this much gap in the boot's top hole or be this easy to move. Time will tell after I get an alignment whether the new Moogs from Rockauto hold the alignment better than the 95,000-mile stock ones. Tried the toe plates and manually adjusting first, and I don't have the patience for anything more than small adjustments. 😄

IMG_7615.MOV 12.09 MB · 0 downloads

Helps to have something you don't need to download to show the tie rod end. Oops!