cgroppi Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Nokones said: I started autocrossing in an era like Scott did, over 35 years ago with the Porsche Club and SCCA, 250+ cars at an event days with 8 run groups, and with an Awards banquet that everyone dresses up or at least wear a collared shirt, bring their spouse, have a nice dinner, and collect their hardware for the season. There was always a break between your run and work groups so you can either watch other drivers run or swap lies with your friends or show your friends all your secret go-fast parts on your car. In those days, you usually spend the whole day on site because it was a social event inner-mixed with a couple minutes of some competition. After the event, most people hung-out for the BBQ and swap some more lies, than go home so they can get some rest to come back the next day and do the same thing. I sure would like to see the social aspect of autocrossing at the events. I know the BBQ may be a problem at AMP but, a year-end awards banquet would be nice. Kenny, We’re definitely going to bring back the awards banquet. COVID stopped that one but we’ll discuss if we can make it happen this December or in the spring. I had one all planned for spring 2020 at a location nearby amp after the last event of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgroppi Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dave Schotz said: Another thought on providing solutions, how much is a security officer for the day? $1,000? 30 additional entrants seems to cover that, no? Y’all know best if your waiting list is 4 people or 20… but also I’m sure many don’t even complete registration when they see all is full. And for a club looking for members… the same 130 aren’t going to make the club prosperous by my calculations. SCCA/Solo has always been a club for encouraging membership and being a family community of camaraderie. Best regards, Dave The city of Glendale charges $50 per hour for an officer if you go through them. So for one of our events it would cost about $500. That’s a significant fraction of what we pay for the amp location. But you’re right. If attendance grew to compensate we could cover it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, cgroppi said: The city of Glendale charges $50 per hour for an officer if you go through them. So for one of our events it would cost about $500. That’s a significant fraction of what we pay for the amp location. But you’re right. If attendance grew to compensate we could cover it. Wow, that's pretty damn cheap. If that cost can't be covered by additional entries, increasing the entry fee another $5.00 is not unreasonable. The current entry fee is pretty reasonable as compared to what other Region's charge for an entry fee. Before I moved here 2 1/2 years ago, it's been decades since I saw a $35.00 entry fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Kemper Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 “Or go back to 3 runs… if 3 runs = 200 attendees the club wins… if 3 runs equals 100 attendees, then have to figure something else out. But local events being sold out should not be common as we are experiencing.” The other variable with AMP is there is a hard cap of 200 on their complex. If we propose 200 attendees on the skidpad that effectively means AMP cannot rent out the road course. I would guess they will require us to rent the entire facility to make up for that loss of revenue, which would be substantially greater than the rent we pay for only the skidpad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgroppi Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 2 hours ago, cgroppi said: The city of Glendale charges $50 per hour for an officer if you go through them. So for one of our events it would cost about $500. That’s a significant fraction of what we pay for the amp location. But you’re right. If attendance grew to compensate we could cover it. I read further. We’d have to provide liability and workman’s comp insurance. That’s a big deal for us. we don’t get that from SCCA and it’s not like we ca n just go buy a policy. Sorry to get people’s hopes up. Certificate of Insurance (minimum of $1,000,000 of liability and workman’s comp naming the City of Glendale as additionally insured) must be filed with the GPD Off-Duty Employment Coordinator prior to commencement of any staffing under this agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSLance Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Dave Schotz said: Y’all know best if your waiting list is 4 people or 20… but also I’m sure many don’t even complete registration when they see all is full. As of this morning there are 16 people on the waitlist for Nov, there are just 2 ahead of you Dave by registration date. Typically if there are cancelations,they happen 1-2 days before the event. Registration is looking for ways to make sure waitlisted people get the chance to show up and run to fill the no-show or late cancelations. I can't tell you right now that you'll get in for sure, but I can suggest that you be prepared to run in case it happens with little advance notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 18 hours ago, cgroppi said: I read further. We’d have to provide liability and workman’s comp insurance. That’s a big deal for us. we don’t get that from SCCA and it’s not like we ca n just go buy a policy. Sorry to get people’s hopes up. Certificate of Insurance (minimum of $1,000,000 of liability and workman’s comp naming the City of Glendale as additionally insured) must be filed with the GPD Off-Duty Employment Coordinator prior to commencement of any staffing under this agreement If I recall, SCCA will add the City of Glendale as an additional insured and if my memory serves me right, there may not be an additional charge. Now, the workman's comp is another issue. I don't know if there is a separate insurance coverage for workman's comp for one person for one day amount available. I think that should be checked out or talk to the City of Glendale Risk Management and see if there is something that they can do by adding the coverage and what would that cost be and maybe they can add that cost to the contract. Now, I can see why the cost was only $50/hour. Over 16 years ago, contracting for law enforcement services was well over $150/hour and that covered the Officer's overtime, vacation, returement, and sick leave costs, administrative costs for the paperwork and Exec. Management review and approval, legal review, officer's uniform cleaning, vehicle cost and maintenance, etc. to ensure there was no indirect or direct costs to the contracting agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER9240 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Unless I’m missing something, AMP is in Litchfield Park, which contracts its police services through the City of Avondale. That would give us a few options for off-duty - Avondale, MCSO, or the Arizona Rangers. I mention the Rangers because the last Motorsports event I attended which mandated security hired them. They are not POST certified and have the same arresting powers as any ordinary citizen. Don’t know what any of them charge. I think a sit down with AMP to re-visit this issue is probably in order. This is a low security risk event since it’s family oriented and no alcohol is allowed. We are drawing a focused interest group with a specific rule set and guidelines in place. The participant/spectator expectations are made known well in advance. Unless someone is hell bent on causing problems, this is not a venue where typical security issues would be a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Kemper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, ER9240 said: Unless I’m missing something, AMP is in Litchfield Park, which contracts its police services through the City of Avondale. That would give us a few options for off-duty - Avondale, MCSO, or the Arizona Rangers. I mention the Rangers because the last Motorsports event I attended which mandated security hired them. They are not POST certified and have the same arresting powers as any ordinary citizen. Don’t know what any of them charge. I think a sit down with AMP to re-visit this issue is probably in order. This is a low security risk event since it’s family oriented and no alcohol is allowed. We are drawing a focused interest group with a specific rule set and guidelines in place. The participant/spectator expectations are made known well in advance. Unless someone is hell bent on causing problems, this is not a venue where typical security issues would be a concern. this is a requirement under the AMP operating permit, AMP cannot unilaterally change it anymore than changing the sound restrictions they are under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER9240 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 46 minutes ago, Kim said: this is a requirement under the AMP operating permit, AMP cannot unilaterally change it anymore than changing the sound restrictions they are under. Ah, gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuko305 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 11/8/2021 at 9:53 PM, Kim said: The other variable with AMP is there is a hard cap of 200 on their complex. If we propose 200 attendees on the skidpad that effectively means AMP cannot rent out the road course. I would guess they will require us to rent the entire facility to make up for that loss of revenue, which would be substantially greater than the rent we pay for only the skidpad. Now that's an idea... rent out the entire space. For example; Group A = Morning Skidpad, Afternoon AutoXtrack, Group B = Morning AutoXtrack and Afternoon Skidpad. We'd max out at 200 each event. Charge $80 per driver which equates to $16,000 in revenue and make registration fees non-refundable. Everyone into a registration pool random assignment of run groups. Now all we need are additional volunteers to run both the track & skidpad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 That is a great idea. We should at least try it and see how well it is received by the members and if the turnout is good at least do a couple of these events a year. I don't see the increased entry fee, Ben mentioned, is unreasonable for event like that. There is a National procedure that needs to be followed if an autocross event is conducted on a race track. The National Office will have to review the event plan and approve it. Many decades ago, the San Francisco Region held a couple events on the Streets in the City of Vallejo and a couple of events at Sears Point (now Sonoma Raceway) using turns 1 through 6 and finishing up on the drag strip. Those events were well attended. After those events were held, the National Office created rules for autocross events held on tracks at racing facilities. If the rules are followed they (National Office) will approve the event. An event of this nature will require someone experienced at each corner station and excellent radio communications for track operations. For track safety, separate radio channels for track operations, grid operations, and calling in car numbers at the starting line is imperative. Also, an experienced person should be utilized for each work group for overseeing/observing the track operations for safety in case a car spins or is not moving to callout the red flag to all stations. The lesson learned from the Sears Point event was do not put in high speed chicanes or slaloms on the straights because it will upset the balance of the car and cause an unsafe/castistrophic incident. It was safer to allow the car to travel at higher speeds allowing the car to stay in a straight direction in a braking zone into a turning maneuver. The best thing to do was pinch down the entrance and exits of all the turns to keep the speed safe. If the straights were too long than a slow speed/tight chicane, dog leg, or slalom were used to keep the high speeds down to something relative safe and still have the fun-factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeyers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Ken, were you not here when we put on some autocrosses at AMP and the Bondurant School road course? For many years we hosted the occasional road course/Solo events. We are very familiar with the mandated SCCA required safety procedures to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeyers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just saw on the news this morning, a "Ford Driving Skills for Life" event for Teens. It was being hosted on a larger-looking parking lot near 27th Ave and Lower Buckeye Road. Anyone know more about this location? Looked industrial.......i.e. not noise sensitive.😉😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribs Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) That is at the Phoenix Fire Department Training Academy. That is where the Ford training will occur Edited November 10, 2021 by ribs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach5Mk5 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I’m guessing this is it. It’s the fire department training facility for the City of Phoenix: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeyers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 So….. how accessible is this for Clubs? Anyone know anyone?😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 7 hours ago, smeyers said: Ken, were you not here when we put on some autocrosses at AMP and the Bondurant School road course? For many years we hosted the occasional road course/Solo events. We are very familiar with the mandated SCCA required safety procedures to do so. No, I moved here May 2019. I haven't been on the AMP or Wild Horse race tracks yet. I've been chasing some small gremlin issues with my C4 and now the clutch is slipping and parts have been on order since the first of August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeyers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I for one would like to see the Club schedule another “special event” or even an event from our Series at either the AMP short track or the ex-Bondurant School road course. To my knowledge they were popular, and a nice change of pace from our norm. Please? 😎👍👏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I think a Solo Trials (formerly Solo I) event would be fun and different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbid Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, smeyers said: I for one would like to see the Club schedule another “special event” or even an event from our Series at either the AMP short track or the ex-Bondurant School road course. To my knowledge they were popular, and a nice change of pace from our norm. Please? 😎👍👏 I always thought the CAC summer events were fun and different. A little road course to break up the normal seasons. For other locations, from I recall anyways, Exponent Failure Analysis was a good site. At least from an end user perspective, the only weirdness was that we couldn't talk about what we saw there 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokones Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, morbid said: I always thought the CAC summer events were fun and different. A little road course to break up the normal seasons. For other locations, from I recall anyways, Exponent Failure Analysis was a good site. At least from an end user perspective, the only weirdness was that we couldn't talk about what we saw there 😄 This Region hosted a Pro Solo event at Failure Analysis back in the early 90s, I believe it was in 1991 or 1992. I remember the site had lots of good grip, at least for the BFG 206s. This Region also hosted a Pro Solo event back in the early 90s at the Goodyear Airport. I kinda recall the surface being just ok for grip on the Yokohama RS2s. The State Fair Grounds and Tempe Stadium were a couple more sites used for either a Divisional or a National Tour event in the early 90s.. I recall Tempe Stadium being a horrible site. Edited November 11, 2021 by Nokones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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